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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jul 7, 2009 3:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Dont get me wrong, I will always love the music of the Grateful Dead best, but objectively speaking, I might have to give the edge to the Floyd. Their music is so much more polished, better produced, dynamic, etc...Pink Floyd has accomplished so much more than the GD. Am I wrong?

Do you think Floyd's music (studio and/or live) is over-produced? Or sheer genious?

I once thought Pink Floyd didnt jam...I was definately wrong about that! If you dont think Pink Floyd jammed you need to check out this amazing jazzy performance at SM, fucking mind-blowing jazzy Gilmour...

http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/PinkFloyd1971-09-30.asx

More amazing music here...

http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/PinkFloyd1967-1969BBCArchives1970-1971.asx

Can anyone recomend any more files that sound as good as these two and will similarly turn my mind into oatmeal?

I will leave you with this incredible piece of music, its 3 minutes and well worth checking out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFvSgV1u3sU

Honestly, how often do you think the Grateful Dead were performing at this level?

This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2009-07-07 22:13:32

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jul 8, 2009 6:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

If the GD had decided to don their polishing rags they could have easily equaled Floyd's polished (sanitized) music.

Blues for Allah

Of course this is only my opinion - I never really listened to much Floyd, they never really caught my fancy.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jul 8, 2009 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Careful. There are a few undesirables around here who would like nothing better then to "catch your fancy".

Oooops. Off topic. My apologies. Just wanting to be sure you watch your back.

Oooops. Double entendre. My bad.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

haha

Got ya

dire does, afterall, live on the East Coast

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 7, 2009 4:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

OK, you can't be serious...

Really.

Now, you all know that I love PF, and Syd.

Did I not say that Syd is one of the 3 (or was it four?) most important 60s icons?

But, to even consider PF in the same league with the DEAD.

Well, okay # 2...that might be acceptable. And certainly, one could argue that more peeps bought PF materials in the 70s.

But, # 2, couldn't that be said for MJackson?

Seriously.

There is no discussion here. PF from 66-68 was hugely, hugely influential. In the same sense as Donovan, or Dylan. And, then, like one out of two of those, it morphed into something else.

At least in my book, I put them down as important, but not long term.

Sorry, kids--once again, don't write in.

Special note to CPW: keep your long scrolling responses coming!

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Poster: craven714 Date: Jul 8, 2009 6:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I have nothing to add. I love both bands. I just find it
interesting that this thread was started on the 3rd
anniversary of Syd Barretts death, and no one has mentioned it. Or is that the point?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What are the data?

Good point, and thanks--should have known that...

I was a bit over the top in my comments above, but often find it hard to compare bands that I have some "issue" with, and I mean that broadly and not necessarily as negative as it sounds. So, eg, with PF, I ended up being unhappy with much of their later work (hmmm, notice a trend with me in this respect?), and though knowing they ach'd great popularity, I somehow find it difficult to equate it with greatness, per se, as SCB pointed out, we smug discerning types try to distinguish record sales from genius, or whatever...

Suppose I like Strat's take on it, and certainly accept they were a huge success at a number of levels...

When folks conduct those "list like" analyses, do the DEAD still stack up as the most successful LIVE band, in terms of $$ they were making at the time, or have they been eclipsed by the great increase in $$ assoc with tours the past few yrs?

Any other criteria by which we could compare them with PF? Total record/CD sales?

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 4:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Ha ha WT, our posts crossed in the ether! We can't judge greatness on volume of albums sold, (which I know you know already), or else we'd only need to own 3 discs: Thriller, The Saturday Night Fever Soundtrack, and Bing Crosby's White Christmas. What a music collection... ugh...

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jul 8, 2009 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I'll admit it...I really find the bee Gees to be excellent. Seriously, you forget all the great tunes they have not to mention the vocal capabilities. I may be in the minority on this one but for the sake of honesty I dig those guys.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jul 8, 2009 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

....and certainly nothing wrong with Bing Crosby (from a musical standpoint anyways)


although I am still awaiting a grand death metal version of
White Christmas by such a stalwart metal icon like Impaled Nazarene ;)

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Early Bee Gees numbers like "In My Own Time" or "I Close My Eyes" are truly excellent; the disco stuff doesn't bake my cake. And yes, Der Bingle Rocks on "Pennies From Heaven," but y'all are (intentionally, I bet) missing mah point...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jul 8, 2009 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

your "bet" is correct ;)

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Poster: snori Date: Jul 8, 2009 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

William please tell - who do you think Donovan influenced ? He was just another guy who picked up an acoustic guitar and wrote some drippy songs. His best record was witten by Buffy Sainte-Marie. Gift from a Flower to a Garden ? More like Gift from an Arse to a Toilet I would say.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Well, at the time, in an "icon" esque fashion, he was hugely influential in the states. I was at a family gathering in 1966 in which 16 individuals between 12 and 21 were present, and the three families were from SF, NY, and ND, and yet the only performer ALL of them thought was great was Donov. Not sure why, and not sure all of this means squat.

They also all dressed like him.

So, I made this pitch a month or so ago in which I argued that BHolly, BJones, Don and Syd were four of the most influential forces in the 60s.

But, it is just my bizarre little idiosyncratic list.

Pay it no mind.

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Poster: snori Date: Jul 9, 2009 1:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

No disrespect - in fact he bought his kids' clothes in a shop where my mother worked. Idiocyncracy makes this world more bearable.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd as influential as Dylan? I don't think so.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Yeah, that came off badly...what I meant to say is that any number of folks, PF, Dylan, Donov, were influential, in their own respective ways, and to varying degrees, which by the time you end up qualifying it, leaves it sort of meaningless, you know?

So, of those three, I actually would have to say that Dylan, Donovan and PF, in that order were influential.

Gasp, says snori.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Jesus Christ! Is it possible for some of you to like music that wasn't made in the 60's?

To me music should touch the soul. Being that Pink Floyd doesn't appear to have any of course I'll go with the Dead. Pink Floyd created artistic masterpeices, the Grateful Dead conjured magic.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jul 7, 2009 4:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd - brilliant band, massive commercial success, huge live shows that were choreagraphed and rehearsed...early stuff has it's share of some sloppy playing...Pink floyd "space music" could rival Phil and Ned for obtuse, prog galactic masturbating (listne to Live at Pompeii)...awesome records...

Grateful Dead - modest commercial success, huge live shows that were organic and improvised...their best music is found on tape, not on record...

Both bands tap into the pschadelic subconscience in their own way...

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I really like Floyd, but I don't think they offered anything close to the sonic variety of the Dead. Plus, I always thought they took themselves a little too seriously.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I'll reply to you, skuzzlebutt, just for fun.

I have one piece of rock and roll "artwork" on the wall in the room where I sleep.

Oh, there's plenty in the hallway, but all that I consider
Fluxus wallpaper.

In my room, the one piece, it's in a rusting metal frame, I should probably replace, behind dusty cobwebbed glass (TMI), is an empty sleeve of the UK import copy of The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (1967).

Not to say the Grateful Dead don't have tons of eye-catching art (particularly imho, their '66-'68 stuff) and I used to hang the posters up when I was a teenager,

But jeesh, I'm 55 years old... people would look at me pretty weird if I had Dead pics up on the wall!

The only things I would ever display now of theirs, if I had them - and no single human being ought to - would be either the Uncle Sam hat, the sharktooth necklace or the purple paisley turtleneck.

Anything else, stays on the shelf out of site.

But that first PF album cover... that's cool man, with a capital "c"...

see what I mean?

No?

er...uh..oh...um


This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-07-08 02:50:12

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I used to have a picture of Bela Lugosi in my bathroom, but I still like the Dead better than Floyd.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 8, 2009 6:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Bela in the bathroom - now that's class!

And I prefer the Dead over the Floyd too, by a country mile.

We did have a poster of Zappa taking a crappa tacked up in our Victorian flat's W.C. though...

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Where was that Victorian flat? Don't tell me it was on the Oakland/Berkeley border....

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 8, 2009 10:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

1514 Page St., around the corner from Magnolia Thunderussy's Cafe at Haight Masonic (catty corner from Reckless records, across from Uganda Liquors, catty corner from Sundance Incense Trading Co., across the Street from Pipe Dreams, 8,000 miles from Katmandu.)

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 7, 2009 8:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Fluxus - who are you? Beck's grandfather?

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Beck?

You mean that guy who did "Devil's Haircut"? (great song, as is "New Pollution" - both songs on his debut album Odelay - 1996)

Did Beck sing something about Fluxus?
Wait'll I get my talons on that whippersnapper grandson o'mine!

I've only seen fluxus at an exhibition in S.F.'s MOMA '93 or so, that featured ephemeral items like 150 empty boxes of Quaker Oats Crunchy Granola behind plexiglass...

Too bad the artist didn't eat a less healthy cereal (with flashier box graphics I mean) such as Freakies or Count Chocula.
(Quaker's Granola was actually heavily pre-sweetened).

But then, those cartoon character candy coated cereals changed the box graphics constantly and the blandness of the display wouldn't have been as funny in it's own way;
row after row of the same design... why would anyone have saved so many empty boxes unless to show how boring the commercial health food packaging was, while irresistable taste-wise at the same time?

What is Fluxus?

I think, anything that hasn't been recycled/altered, used or unused, made or unmade into something else...
saved from common, everyday stuff.

One item was a set of oil paint tubes given to John Lennon, that had never been used... (donated by Yoko) - simultaneously showing that he never bothered to do anything with the paint set, and that he was a regifter who forgot to regift this particular item (I keed!).
There was an entire loft reconstructed (if it was eevn ever dismantled) and displayed behind plexiglass so you could only look in from a distance...
none of the exhibit, except for some Yoko and Warhol (?) films on video were interactive in any way.

So to recount, Fluxus is what you don't make it, unlike Dada - such as Marcel DuChamp's bicycle tire, because that was turned into something else - a sculpture.


So my hallway has free posters I got from Tower Records (Louis Armstrong, OuterLimits video promo), empty cigerrette packs (50 or so Marlboro fliptops that Cyril smoked), an empty TV dinner box commemoritive that was designed to look like a classic TV dinner box (but doesn't really look like one), an It's It container, a Kinks "Schoolboys in Disgrace poster that came out (a giveaway) long after the original release, Flamin Groovies single and LP cover prototypes, comic book promo posters attempting to recreate the "Silver Age" (but missing by a mile, though they look cool) and oh, not a single Grateful Dead pic or poster.

Oops!




This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-07-08 12:21:11

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I thought "Fluxus" was a book by Henry Miller...?

And a friend of mine has a "Schoolboys In Disgrace" tattoo!...

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Al Hansen (?), Beck's grandfather, is considered one of the "founders" of the Fluxus movement. I saw an exhibition in Prague around '94 with a bunch of his stuff, Nam June Paik (sp?), Yoko, and others. Some of it was, in my opinion, crap and some was pretty cool and thought provoking.

Sexus, Plexus and Nexus is the Miller trilogy. Obscenity trials and the First Amendment. HOWL and the like in the courtrooms. Where are you Lenny Bruce? If ever in Big Sur, check out the library. Lots of cool stuff happens there.
http://www.henrymiller.org/events.html

Floyd - studio. Dead - live.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Did you know on Beck's birth certificate, it's spelled "Bek?" Buncha crazy artists in that family, I tell ya...

And I know the Miller trilogy well, I was just having fun imagining if there was a 4th book in the series, what might it be called...? ;-)

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-07-09 00:39:26

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I did not know re Beck but figured you were goofing on the Miller thing - I just like to use any chance I get to plug the library. Magnus Toren runs the place and does a great job of keeping the Miller spirit alive there under the redwoods.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 10:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

¬°Que Onda Guero!

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Poster: Chiklod Date: Jul 7, 2009 9:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Grateful Dead music has always had a "lilt" underlying it, even on the heavy songs, which makes it easier for me to turn to them when I need a pick-me-up. I always thought of Floyd as exploring the dark and hopeless side of the spectrum. That being said, Floyd's music is still top notch, I use their music as a sherbet between large helpings of Dead.

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Poster: staggerleib Date: Jul 7, 2009 10:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Apples and oranges, folks. I hate to debate taste. Truly, I love floyd, and I love the Dead. I feel that they are so different as to not really allow for a this versus that comparison.

The early Floyd under Syd was just as trippy, silly and fun as anyone else. They grew into an orchestral and far more dense unit. As Roger took the reins, and also in his solo stuff, he tackled much darker material, much more personal, and likely far less universal. The themes were consistent and stormy. I believe that he achieved a far better voice in his solo efforts than he did with the Floyd. I personally love Pros and Cons, and would rank that show, with Eric Clapton taking lead guitar as the best show I've ever seen... BAR NONE. The bombast moves me.

For those who believe that Gilmour has chops, you need to listen to this show, and hear the way Floyd would have sounded with a virtuoso blues player. I think that David was and is a wonderful lyrical player. He's got a flair for melody, and an ear for tonality. On an Island is simply wonderful.

All that being said, there was never the level of diversity and spontaneity as there was with the dead. Even in Terrapin, or Blues for Allah, where the structures were complex and far more rigid, there is a delicate balance between chaos and control that is always beautiful even when it doesn't work. Warts and All!

There's so much room for so much music that I can not limit myself. I listen to Floyd almost as much as the Dead, but not as much through the years, as I tire of Floyd easier. I listen to Todd Rundgren often (I know, redundant, huh?) and going to see Elvis Costello, as well as Zappa Plays Zappa and Dream Theatre this summer.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jul 8, 2009 6:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Well said.
For me, the only similarities on which a true comparison can be made are founded in their both spawning from the mind of a genious. Other than that, they are completely different entities. One has the polished sheen and beauty of the finest DaVinci, while the other has the madcap beauty of a Pollack. The Dead win the war in terms of live performance, but, for me, the Floyd easily passes them by with their studio work.
Orchestrated vs. Improvised. Beethoven vs. Bird. To each his own.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

You might like this version of "Cymbaline" from San Francisco in April 1970, followed by "Grantchester Meadows", and "Careful With That Axe Eugene" from the same show. This whole show is circulating as a video torrent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az3pLse9no0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLB2s5NZcz0&;feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGsBUWD5r2o

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-07-08 00:34:35

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Off those links is Gilmore & Co.'s Barn Jam, which is cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCc5K7e04W0

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

did ben and jerry's name a flavor after waters or gilmour? debate settled.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

And the have "Phish Food". Does that suggest that Phish is better than Floyd???

What about "DMB's Magic Brownies"??

This post was modified by user unknown on 2009-07-08 01:30:16

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

That just tells us that Jerry was a way cooler dude than either Gilmour or Waters.....but we all knew that already!!!!

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

how many free concerts did pink floyd play?

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

at least one - the 'Harvest' acts (Edgar Broughton, Kevin Ayres) show in Hyde Park - "Ummagumma" era, when the tripped-out hippie tried to swim across the Serpentine (lake in middle of Hyde Park) only to get half-way across and then realise that he couldn't swim (and then drown - 100% dead)!

But, as per my earlier mail - this is 'no contest'. The Dead win by a country mile. Jerry used to play the pedal steel, Gilmour murdered it. "Ummagumma" yes, more or less everything afterwards can be ignored (unless you like the sound of dripping taps and frying bacon).

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Yeah, but they DO have "Goodbye Yellow Brickle Road" with Elton on the label... (which i actually thought was cool.)

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Poster: daliguana Date: Jul 7, 2009 8:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Funny you should bring this up - I just listened to Feb show from 80 last night - and I coincidently opened this thread getting here just now - http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=233305
In the intro to the show from last night - the announcer tells the audience that the band wants everyone to, in essence, sit down and shut up as the band wants everyone to hear the words and music - no fireworks, please - no flash photog, etc.
Enjoyed the show, complete The Wall performance - but nothing like a Dead show, obviously. I saw Floyd in the early 90s, before I saw the Dead. The show was fantastic, very polished and had a great light and video show. IMHO, you could see just one show per tour and you got it - my impression of the Allman brothers as well - get a couple from each era and you pretty much got the gist of it - wouldn't dream of putting the Dead into that category. That being said, Meddle is one of my all-time favs - no studio Dead album would make that short list. Live from Pompeii is one of my favorite live performance/documentary.
From the Feb 28 1980 Nassau show I listened to last night, you get a very different vibe from the live recording. The intro included a list of things not to do during the show, as the band wanted everyone to listen closely to the words and notes - yes, they were polished to be sure.
Good topic, Cliff
edit: I have listened to 7-7-89 going on the third time today - I wouldn't do that with a Floyd show

This post was modified by daliguana on 2009-07-08 03:49:45

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Poster: Smokestack Jones Date: Jul 9, 2009 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I love both bands. Kinda hard to choose one over the other. Have you ever listened to Easy Star All-Stars? The complete Dark Side done reggae. Not a bad listen at all.
http://www.amazon.com/Dub-Side-Of-The-Moon/dp/B000QQTFFE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&;s=dmusic&qid=1247144131&sr=8-2

This post was modified by Smokestack Jones on 2009-07-09 13:01:10

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Poster: snori Date: Jul 9, 2009 7:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I'm going to see them next month - I ve 'Dub side of the moon' and prefer it to 'Dark Side'. They've just given Sgt Pepper the treatment as well.

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Poster: Smokestack Jones Date: Jul 9, 2009 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I like the Dub Side also. It's a nice change of pace from the original. I didn't know about them doing Sgt. Peppers. I wonder if they got the dog whistle in there.

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Poster: Darkstarz117 Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

There is a bootleg called darkside of the sky over at gratefulbreed. Just do a blog search for the site, i cant remember the address for it. Anyway that is a live rendition of Dark Side Of The Moon, except it is different and jammed out in parts and played completely crazy like. This is some good mid-later Floyd that proves they still had it in the later years.

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Poster: falconcry77 Date: Jul 7, 2009 3:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

sorry in advance for not really addressing the question...

I'm just glad I don't have to choose! After bingeing on the Dead, Floyd is very refreshing, and vice versa. They compliment each other nicely and are both constantly in my rotation, with breaks here and there.

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Poster: angular Date: Jul 7, 2009 3:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I will say each group is refreshing in its' own way. It just depends on your mood. Personally I give the nod to Keller and the WMD'S.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jul 7, 2009 3:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I'm of the opinion that the big pond never allowed us access to "warts and all" Floyd. My first experience was Atom Heart Mother. My recollection, after all these years was that it was a pleasant soundtrack for a trippy day. Wasn't until DSOM that I really was forced to pay attention, it was everywhere. As such, I saw them as a continuum of the Beatles and the studio oddities they were fond of, and very good at it.

In the years since, I've become a big fan of David Gilmour's guitar work and compare his ability to emote to Garcia's. Unfortunately, I don't thing Gimour's gift translates into American music in the same way Clapton's fails to. Both are so very close, yet lack the necessary sloppiness to be convincing American musicians. Keith Richards on the other hand...

I suppose what I'm saying is that even the live stuff I've bought and heard from PF has such a polished sound, it never seems edgy. They never give the impression that it's all about to come apart...and it's never expected.

It's kind of ironic that it was always Garcia that suppressed the expectations of listeners. As such, many of us thought they were amazing overachievers rather than being a proficient music making unit. Garcia would have us believe the wheels could come off at any moment, and always promoted the fact that the band was operating on the edge...even up to using "Without a Net" as an album title.

It kind of bothers me that as a head, I always had high hopes and lowered expectations of the Dead. That was always the mantra...new album hitting the streets, we're not a studio band. New tour coming up, we're just a bunch of stoner garage band guys, and don't understand why anybody would like us.

Jerry lied.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 4:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

IMHO:


Grateful Dead: Consistently use odd time-signatures, and Garcia has no problem soloing over them.

Pink Floyd: Have to change the time signature in the middle of "Money" because Gilmour can't hack 7/8.

Grateful Dead: Play songs in all keys, and rarely repeat a chord progression from song to song (Franklin's/Foolish Heart being an exception.)

Pink Floyd: Post "Dark Side," 99% of Pink Floyd songs are in E minor (or it's relative, G Major, no different notes in the scale, actually). So they wind up repeating themselves... a lot. Echo & the Bunnymen proved you can do a whole album in the same key and make it work, but they changed keys from album to album. Floyd won't even do that, E minor or die!

Grateful Dead: Can be creepy, happy, charming, off-putting, affirming, comforting or energizing, depending on the song/show.

Pink Floyd: can be humorless or depressing, take your pic. And occasionally, baselessly, bombastic. Fun? Not for me...

Anyway, I could go on, but I'm obviously so biased that I probably shouldn't. Just something to chew on. And I want to mention I think Syd Barrett was godly, but that's not what we're talking about, is it?




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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

SC,
I just thanked you for one of your responses (10 min. & Under Songs) so, plese don't take this hard...

Arnold Layne is hysterical - maybe mainly to Brit audiences who get the joke, about a geezer swipes ladies knickers off the clothes lines...

Corporal Clegg, I think that's dark humor of a sort...

and The Madman is in my heade, ha ha hee hee... well, we laughed at that the 1st 327 times we heard it...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

What's to take hard, CPW? I agree with everything you said!

"Arnold Layne/Don't do it again..." :)

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-07-08 02:23:29

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

It probably deserves its own thread, for the emotional reactions it may provoke, but you touch on something very important here - the role that "promotion" played in the band's image. They definitely promoted the idea that it was all loose and free-flowing and about to come apart at any second - even during times like 1980 when sets and songs were short, tight and often downright predictable.

Then there was the movie. I gotta tell you that after seeing that movie in 1978, I instantly became a wanna-be head. My first couple of shows the next year were more or less formalities, because I wanted to be part of that scene. When I saw the movie again on DVD a few years ago, I was a little stunned by just what an infomercial it is. The overriding message of that movie is "this is the thing to do: take some drugs, and come to all of our shows."

I'm not arguing the quality of the product they were selling, just acknowledging that they were packaging and selling a product. Remember all those "last adventure available" quotes from the 80's. "Well, you can't run off and jump a train or join the circus anymore, but you can go see the Grateful Dead ... " Most horrifyingly successful advertising campaign in history?

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Poster: D_Raam Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

An absurd proposition if there ever was one. Would either of these bands accept the idea of competition between them?

Why should we???

On second thought, whuddayatakinabout... Dead kicks their ass...

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Poster: JC Edwards Date: Jul 8, 2009 1:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

God, here we go again!

I've said it a thousand times (more actually) Pink Floyd = The most God aweful, depressing band in musical history!

Give me the knife to cut your wrist's for you to put you out of my misery.

I have the GRATEFUL "GODDAMN" DEAD!!!!

PIGPEN!!
not Syd!

This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds.....in the event it does not, please press # to return to the main menu.
Press * Se Habla Espanol.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Damn, I thought I convinced you Syd was great...

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Poster: JC Edwards Date: Jul 8, 2009 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Do Tell Will Tell :-)

"In the land of darkness, the ship of the sun is drawn by.........The Grateful Dead"

"In the land of the sun, the ship of darkness is drawn by.......Pink Floyd!"

This message Will self destuct inside Will Tell's hard-drive......in the event that that happens, please call the Geek Squad for him.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Damn you! Here I am at the LIBRARY!

WTF happened???!!

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jul 7, 2009 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

ha! you put green is the colour in there...I used to jam this tune way back in the day...suprisingly Dead music is more difficult than Floyd...this tune for instance, is a piece of cake...relatively speaking, the Dead delivered most every show during their prime...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

The Dead didn't deliver consistently, and even if they did or didn't have the X factor present, there was often humor.

No, Joy -- yes joy! And more emotional textures because of the variety of songs.

Lurid and weird sometimes, or maddening even, but funny. Even if the joke was on you. Hell in a bucket at exactly the wrong time(s) that had us laughing later.

Or "If I had my way, if I had my way, if I had my way,
I would tear this old building down." So loud that you could take as threat from the next life to clean up your act stat.

The experience could also test your pride in your mind. Is the band one or conflicting egos ala Shadowbox-Bucket-Victim? They could go into some direction and then turn on a dime, leaving preconceptions in the dust.

And they provided a pretty safe friendly environment, and a Rock Medicine backup. Of course that's not their peak, but it WAS Reagan's America.

You had to put up with awkward harmonies and forced shouts, but I didn't get that warmth -- which coincided even with the weather -- from other bands.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-07-08 00:48:39

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Hmmm. Primal under the LBJ administration, Just exactly perfect during the Nixon-Ford years, a spark...then faded during Carter, stadium giants with record setting revenues during Reagan, fading fast and disappearing altogether during Clinton.

The Grateful Dead. A Conservative Republican Band.

Proud members of the Bohemian Club, and soon to be Bilderberg Groupsters.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Jul 8, 2009 2:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

The Grateful Dead didn't mess with partisan pissing contests until after Garcia died. Your conservative Republican band openly campaigned for Brack Obama. like they.ve never done for any other presidential candidate.

That Bohemian Club garbage occurred around 1998...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2009-07-08 09:50:53

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2009-07-08 09:51:52

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Maybe the darkness is from your eyes. It's odd Earl, given that I like your show reviews! After 28 years of Republican rule of the last 40, are we better off or prepared for the future?

It seems more like the choice was given at the height of the cold war. Hippiedom wasn't a political revolution but one of conscience. Even the gains in freedom have been wiped away in principal, and total breakdown just awaits our Stalin, "wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."

Or maybe the Anti-Christ in the perfect image of a beast, preaching war against the ungodly owners of "our" oil. God surely made a mistake when HE gave Israel none and only gave America enough to get addicted.

I wonder how friendly the right wing Jews and Christians will remain when the going gets tough. In the middle ages the Crusaders killed everyone. Will the Westboro Baptist Church "Love Crusade" be different than the Love Pageant Rally?

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-07-08 01:15:05

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

For religion I prefer Meher Baba, "Everything is nothing, nothing is everything."

As for politics, I refuse to ever play the victim. There has never been a president or political party that caused my life to either suffer or prosper under it's leadership. My world is what I make it.

Whether either party has a toehold on righteousness, I'll not be the judge, nor will I suffer fools that are motivated by false hatred. (That would be like trading half of America's hatred for George Bush with the other half's hatred of Al Gore.) Just when you think you're in the majority, there's the other half.

Finally, when the reaper comes, it appears to deal out death equally to all, and I know of no politician who has not sold their ideals along with their soul. I don't ever plan on selling out my ideology, or allowing it to be replaced with the kind of venomous hatred that appears to have your soul all in a knot.

Just a passing fancy, since you alluded, perhaps it might be an idea to have a personal plan for "the end game." I don't think government will bail us out when the man come round.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

>>>For religion I prefer Meher Baba, "Everything is nothing, nothing is everything."
...
Just a passing fancy, since you alluded, perhaps it might be an idea to have a personal plan for "the end game." I don't think government will bail us out when the man come round.>>>

F-16s won't do any good either, so there goes the GOP. The hate base seems to insist on reservations for Dante's Cornice of Wrath. Ouch.

Meher Baba (The God-Man, Messiah, Christ, Avatar) seems like a false profit, or at least a slippery slope. He seems to have said/signed near his end, "Do not forget that I am God." Hindu-Sufi syncretics can be tricky though.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

I agree, albeit reluctantly, that good ol' Meher Baba was another dead end...

How 'bout this caveat:
"Everyone's wrong about everything."

Anyway, we're in the 6th trump and heading fast for the 7th...
stick around any maybe you'll get to see the actual Anti-Christ and all that, if you believe... in all that.

I don't know anymore...

but the children believed...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jul 7, 2009 9:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

What do you mean dead end? You don't give your soul to huckster like Meher, just benefit from the philosophy offered. The messenger is always there to be shot, or crucified, it's the message to keep your eyes fixed on. Everything else is just slight of hand.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 9:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

good point.

But one day back in '83 I tried showing up and hanging out at a hippie semi-political hangout wearing a Baba button, a smile and keepig my mouth closed, as though I had taken a temporary vow of silence...

and those boys (one still a close friend) didn't like my act at all...
and almost threw me bopdily out unless I dropped the act (they knew what I was trying to do) and start talking like a normal human being.

Look, only Meher Baba is/was Meher baba...
but we're all in the body of Christ, Amen.

Praise Allah.

(well, scratch that last comment!)

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jul 8, 2009 4:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

The messenger isn't always there to take abuse for scapegoaters, and the actual messengers aren't hucksters.

As for the other comment on praise, Allah is the Arabic word for God. In Hebrew the cognate is Elah; in Aramaic Alaha. In older German God is from ghut, "that which is invoked" -- similar to the Semitic, and apparently to the Aryan/Iranian Khuda.

Even Jews and Christians who speak Arabic use Allah, so the word itself should not cause problems for people unless they just have to take a tribal stand against Arabs and Semitic languages.

I haven't found a great extended treatment on the topic, but the best short ditty I've found (Wikipedia has several good pages too) is "One God, Many Names." The source may cause undue anxiety for some though:
http://www.zaytuna.org/seasonsjournal/seasons3/44-54%20One%20God%20Many%20Names.pdf

Well, let's get on with the show.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-07-08 11:28:29

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Mason's Children?? And was that song really about the Floyd's Nick Mason??? ;-)

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 8, 2009 6:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Come to think of it (I just got back from work), Mason's Children belongs on that "lost" debut list we were assembling!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 7, 2009 8:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Once again, I missed X day. Gotta have more slack....

http://www.subgenius.com/

But at least I've found something to believe in:

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-07-08 03:43:14

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 11:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

gawd, BD, that is funny!

thanks much for the links! lol

Attachment: boxtop-b.jpg
Attachment: buffbill-milkyway.jpg
Attachment: kixtvc-8.jpg

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Poster: billydlions Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

They peaked every 4 years, well sort of anyway. 1968, 1972, 1977 (if you don't count 1975 it works out) and 1981. They were on election cycles until the hiatus threw them off.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

HA! I like your math--interesting suggestion!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Yeah you wish. In your wet dreams Earl. Don't be sad. Just because no artist worth a sh*t has ever been a conservative Republican is no reason to go delusional.

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Poster: Edsel Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

"Just because no artist worth a sh*t has ever been a conservative Republican is no reason to go delusional"

If I were at a party, and heard someone say somthing like that, I'd probably ask them to quit bogarting, and pass it along.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

But you wouldn't say that to the person that started the blather?

If I was at a party and would have to even address something this absurd I'd probably leave

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Poster: Edsel Date: Jul 8, 2009 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

jots, you are a real crowd pleaser, but you wouldn't have to leave, I doubt you'd have been invited in the first place ;)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 3:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

good one! Well you know what Groucho Marx said about belonging to a club that'd have him as a member

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYOV8uu17t0

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 4:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Dang! We've all been banned from you tube at work.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 8, 2009 5:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Just a little NUGE!!! No drugs, guns (but lets really hunt with bows), loincloths and lots of red meat rock n roll!

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 8, 2009 9:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

eeew! thanks for the warning! Funny, he likes to come up here to the State Fair and comment on even our State's Republican politics, and this is before Palin and the National spotlight. The only saving grace for me is that apparently he still throws enough f words and pussy talk to at least offend the religious part of the party.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

One problem I have with the Dark Side forward Pink Floyd, is that the lyrics ( Waters ?) can be so whiney ... Robert Hunter was never so bitchy . Now Floyd's music usually saves them ( think of "Dogs" on Animals, David's guitar adds the pathos that the nasty lyrics miss ).
Of the "prog" bands of the era, its King Crimson for me . Listen to their live stuff from the mid 70's, in the Larks Tongues period !

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jul 7, 2009 7:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Whenever I hear "Red" I leave this dimension... ;-)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Is it always over after a few good yrs?

DD--that is one of the reasons I don't like the latter PF material...the early Syd stuff seems so much more creative, odd, quirky, irreverent, simplistic...I know it could be critiqued as well, but I just like it...

Maybe like all geniuses, Syd had a few good yrs, and then by 25, the wad was shot...maybe he just had the good grace to pass from the scene...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 8, 2009 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Is it always over after a few good yrs?

I like the early stuff too ; all the pre Dark Side records . I can't imagine later day PF having a song as goofy and as charming as "Bike" ( I once sang it, in a very short stint, in a band I was part of) . Like the Anthem>Aox. Dead , they could put on record stuff that most "normal" people see as failed experiments ( "What's Become of the Baby," " Several Species..." of course I love this stuff ).
I like the latter PF albums, but just not as much . But The Wall, mostly leaves me cold . "Another Brick..." seems to tell the "kids" what they want to hear, contrast that to the hated "Day Job," which tells them what they need to hear... (!) Oh well.

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Jul 7, 2009 5:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Sorry Cliff,

the title of the preceeding post is "Wow - things are slow", maybe this 'compare and contrast' should be included there? But, while I'm on the subject:-

I spent my early teenage years getting blown away by the early Floyd. IMHO they peaked with "Ummagumma" (and maybe the "More" soundtrack album) but then (at least to me) it seemed that they had found the formula and had settled down on an easy (gravy train) ride. Geesh, "Another Brick in the Wall" is so plodding, much worse than "Shakedown Street" (which has many more 'moments'). I gave up when I saw them 'live' during the "Atom Heart Mother" tour frying bacon on stage during "Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast" - file that one under 'money for contrived old rope' !!!! Then I heard people talking about that crazy outfit from the states called the Grateful Dead, I called into my local record shop, picked up 'Live/Dead' and asked them to play me a track. They ushered me into a listening booth, put on "Turn on Your Lovelight" in all its raw craziness and that was it - I was on the bus and there was no way back. Sure, the Dead also peaked and may have also settled into their own comfort zone, but nothing like the lacklustre comfort zone of the Floyd.

I can still listen to "Set the Controls" more or less side-by-side with "Dark Star", but all the later stuff ("SOYCD - they reckon Syd's a god, let's coin-up"), you can keep it.

Sorry Cliff - it's all subjective anyway - maybe you're right and I'm wrong - but that's my humble opinion.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jul 8, 2009 9:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Cliff, are you singling out early Floyd rather than the later years (The wall, ect) because the samples you posted are early in their career. The reason i ask is that it seems to me that later on they became more theatrical in terms of sets, and props. Do you think this became a distraction over the actual music that was being played? I'm not a Floyd expert so I'm just throwing it out there.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 7, 2009 6:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but an early Pink Floyd song says it best:

"Apples And Oranges".

But I'm crazy about 2 tracks off the More soundtrack, "Ibiza Bar" and "The Nile Song".

"Corporal Clegg" has a warm spot in my cold heart as well.


And all things Barrett.

Welcome To The Machine at 3:00 am works fine too.

This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-07-08 01:28:15

This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-07-08 01:28:33

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Jul 8, 2009 2:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Exacly right. The Grateful Dead was created to play live concerts and nothing sounded the same twice. Pink Floyd was a studio project which made an album once in awhile and toured sparsely. These bands were two different kinds of musicians. One is not better than other because you can't compare apples and oranges...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 8, 2009 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

Good point; but do you think Syd would have pulled off the live stuff if health issues were controlled? I tend to think not, ie, you're right...

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Poster: jerrys missing finger Date: Jul 8, 2009 11:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pink Floyd vs. The Grateful Dead

good night nurse. now we know whose got all the two hitter quitter. drawing an analagous comparison between these two is like dressing up as a tampon and going to a douche bag party.